[manjaro-dev] Fwd: manjaro involvement, community feedback needed

Thu Jan 12 18:20:43 CET 2017

hi

Just sent this to the sonar list. I'm forwarding it hear because I need 
input from you guys as well as sonar users, and I want to make sure I 
get people who aren't part of sonar. Stefano is asking for direction, 
and I ... I just don't know what comes next. We've argued way more than 
we should, especially after all the help you guys have been and still 
are, and I want to stop bickering and start fixing the bugs. I'm as much 
at fault as anyone else, if not more, as I said in the message. Part of 
it is that I think I may have  gotten lazy. I've installed windows 10 
onto this dell alongside sonar, and I've sort of gotten sucked into the 
whole windows world. So I haven't been in sonar much except to keep it 
up to date. Jonathan Nadeau seems pissed at me, I'm still not sure why. 
The only thing I can think of is that I accidentally, I swear it was an 
accident, kept him out of the loop when we were trying to figure out 
what to do about the installer. If you ahve time, please read the 
forwarded message below. I still want to keep sonar alive if I can.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	manjaro involvement, community feedback needed
Date: 	Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:15:42 -0600
From: 	kendell clark <coffeekingms at gmail.com>
Organization: 	The sonar GNU Linux project <http://www.sonargnulinux.com>
To: 	support at sonargnulinux.com

hi

Before I piss off any manjaro devs who are on this list, you guys have
been, and are still, most of the time anyway, extremely helpful. The
problem isn't you guys, or even us, at least I don't think it's that
simple, it's that we ... actually I'm not sure. Do we maybe have
different ideas of what sonar is, or should be? I'm a manjaro packager,
although to be blunt I've been slacking off way more than I should, I've
just reinstalled sonar onto this machine after a new image build so I
can get started on that again, but more important than that, sonar as a
project is part of manjaro. That means we have to follow your rules. If
you guys want pull requests, we have to provide them. If you want
explanations for why we have software included in sonar, we have to
provide it. But it's the ... the way they've been requested. They feel
more like demands rather than requests. Give me one now, rather than we
need one because ... I hope that makes sense. I'm also stuck on what to
do about the installer. You guys clearly want to drop thus, and I think
that's more than fine. But calamares is ... we just can't figure out why
it doesn't work, and  now thus is having some problem, I'm not sure
what, that prevents it from working. Do we need to make a list of things
that need to be done maybe, and us work together to solve them? It seems
to me that I, and I'm as much at fault for this if not more, have been
shooting down suggestions but not really offering alternatives. I agree
to help and then I get involved in something else, usually at the last
minute and forget to check back for days. Do I not belong at the head of
sonar? Because if you guys want me to step down, I'll be more than happy
to, and we can appoint someone more reliable. I'm only a leader in name
anyway, it's not as if I have final authority over anything. If anyone
does, it's phil mooler or stefano over at manjaro. What do you guys think.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

On 1/12/2017 8:59 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> hi
>
> I'm guessing you're using the latest released version, which was
> released in july? I ask because if I build an image from the work
> manjaro has done I don't have any of those problems at all, especially
> not the problem of not being able to get to buttons on the panel. I do
> still have the one very annoying bug where alt+f1 doesn't bring the
> menu of apps up like it's supposed to. I think I might, maybe, know
> what the problem is but the manjaro folks have to do it. That's the
> worst part of this. We're part of another linux distribution called
> manjaro, and they control the software repositories and what goes into
> them. At first when we did this they were very accomodating and didn't
> complain too much. But lately they want us to prove that what we want
> to do, no matter what that something is, is necessary, and that's just
> not always possible. You guys ask for software, I or jonathan or mark
> or someone puts it in. That's not necessary but it is if we want a
> distro where you guys don't feel powerless. Right now I'm trying to
> get them to look at adding a console, text only command line, screen
> reader called fenrir into sonar so that people like mark who like to
> use linux like that can without having to fiddle and cajole
>
>  until they can get it working. I'm not complaining about them either,
> just saying that we're in a bit of a stailmate right now. We can't
> release a stable image until the installer works, and I can't even get
> a straight answer whether it does or doesn't so I don't know what to
> do, and they won't fix the installer until I give them what they want,
> which is a pull request so they can decide whether or not to add
> fenrir. Which I don't know how to do. As for windows being easier ...
> man I am not opening that can of worms. I use windows 10 myself now,
> part time, and I find it no easier to use than sonar. There definitely
> are more resources on the internet on how to get help with it, but not
> really when it comes to accessibility. Mostly what you tend to find
> there are blogs where people preach about one program or another,  or
> web pages trying to sell you things. Now I do have to finally give
> microsoft credit for adding narrator into the installation process.
> Along with brltty and liblouis. Eventually, this doesn't work yet but
> eventually you're supposed to be able to install windows accessibly
> with speech and braille just as you  have been able to for decades
> using linux. How they do this when windows is as proprietary as it
> gets, at least as far as eula is concenet ... I don't know, and I'd
> better shut up there, I talk too much.
> Thanks
> Kendell Clark
>
> On 1/12/2017 7:24 AM, Jonathan Nadeau via Support wrote:
>> Sorry for the troubles you have been having in LInux. Yes there is a
>> learning curve to understanding Linux coming from windows. Sadly for
>> a while now Sonar has been having some issues with the mate version.
>> . We have been working on it for a while now but haven't come up with
>> a fix yet.It may just take jumping from distro to distro to find the
>> one that woks for you. You can always use this list for any talk
>> about any distro. as ling as it is about accessibility.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/2017 5:44 AM, Amir-Trend Plus via Support wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> sorry if offtopic.
>>> but since 2014, the first time i tried linux, always i get
>>> problemssssss. changing distros is a must for me, desktop shells as
>>> well. first unity, gnome, then mate. i can use it about several
>>> months, then it broke. what is wrong? i mean, do any of you experience
>>> it? am i the only who is too stupid and that is why i always destroy
>>> linux? this morning, after doing update, my vinux cannot boot. then i
>>> install sonar, i got different language, not english, eventhough i've
>>> chosen english us as my language. then i use my other computer, find
>>> the solution to change the language, then, restart and orca does not
>>> speak. that was today, how about a year ago? i left linux for a w
>>> hile, and use pirated windows since i cannot afford it, hoping to come
>>> back again to see improvements. i don't blame anyone, but i don't
>>> know. i see a lot of people here in this list, using orca and can use
>>> linux as default os, but why i can't? what is the different? are linux
>>> users a great programmer only? i mean, does you need to know
>>> programming in order to use linux? if that, i don't have the
>>> knowledge. no, i dont think everyone on this list are advance user.
>>> there must be a beginner user at least. but why he can use linux, i
>>> cannot? and, why his system doesn't broke, and mine is? i just did
>>> updates and install some cool stuff, sutch as corebird (on vinux), and
>>> pidgin, and audacity from other repo, and vlc andso on! why it broke!
>>> and then, if something is not working, i need internet connection to
>>> fix it? then how the people in the 90s witch does not have internet
>>> learn and use linux? how do they know that they need to go to
>>> terminal, type sudo apt-get install gnome-orca, to install orca? as a
>>> beginner user, i find quite dificult to setup linux, because, each
>>> time i need to repair ot install something, need to google. just know
>>> i installed sonar mate, you  mate, cannot find wireless, so i am
>>> stuck! at least i have another windows pc to use to find the solution,
>>> the language problem i mean. but after fixing it, then orca stopped, i
>>> am screwed! come on, can i use linux peacefully? i mean without
>>> reinstalling, and googling for things. i don't know what to say
>>> anymore, i don't want to use windows because, it is expensive, and for
>>> now, i am student, i want to use linux, that is free and so on. the
>>> programs are awsome too! ok let us say that one of you purchased a
>>> computer and it is ppre-install with linux, sonar, or vinux, fedora,
>>> ubuntu or so on. but you don't know how to use it, you don't have the
>>> knowledge to do the terminal, or even launching orca. then, what will
>>> you do? that is your first machine, no windows, no nothing. then how
>>> will you get started? windows is quite popular then linux, so i don't
>>> think there a lot of people around you know about linux. sorry again
>>> because offtopic, but i need solutions! why other people can use linux
>>> but i cannot?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support mailing list
>>> Support at sonargnulinux.com
>>> http://sonargnulinux.com/mailman/listinfo/support_sonargnulinux.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support mailing list
>> Support at sonargnulinux.com
>> http://sonargnulinux.com/mailman/listinfo/support_sonargnulinux.com
>

-- 
Sent from Son GNU Linux

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