[manjaro-dev] my report on the mate basic image

[kendell clark]

hi

Let me try to understand this. I hope you're not threatening to cut 
sonar out of manjaro, because although I can be annoying and rant, I 
hope I haven't done something that serious. Without you guys, regardless 
of how busy you get sonar wouldn't be the distro it is today. We'd still 
be trying to figure out how to get our custom background and sound 
scheme to work. You, burnhard landauer, stefano, and the rest of the 
manjaro devs have helped in so many ways I can't count them. You want us 
to let you guys take over the profiles until they're proven stable, ok 
that's fine, but I don't really like the fact that our commits are 
subjected to such scrutiny, unless it's not just our commits but 
everyone's, then I withdraw my complaint. The entire sonar team no 
longer wants to take sonar away from the manjaro devs, that was only for 
a few days and I never wanted it at all, I had to do some fast talking 
to talk the other devs around though. I did get the memo about custom 
software going into packages-mate, packages-gnome, etc. That makes 
sense. The custom software isn't important right now anyway, they're 
just packages in our repos, so they can be added any time. The important 
thing is that sonar do what it's supposed to do, which is to come up 
talking and provide an accessible installer and accessible programs. I'm 
not sure if I've made this clear or not, but if not, I do not, and never 
have blamed you guys for the problems we've had with calamares. That's 
out of you guys' control, and is an orca or at-spi issue, nothing you 
guys did. I do wish accessibility bugs got a higher priority, but this 
is not you guys' problem either, but a general open source and linux 
issue. As for focusing on a few bugs at a time, I completely agree. Are 
we not communicating properly? Am I not emailing the right people or not 
being clear enough, how do we fix this? Our goal as a project is to 
eventually become just another manjaro profile, released with the same 
schedule the other profiles are. We're not there yet, but that's our 
goal. To be accessible manjaro. For that to happen we, the sonar 
developers and you guys, the manjaro developers, need to work as a team 
seemlessly, without all these little things cropping up. I'm not blaming 
anyone for this at all, I'm just saying the profiles have to work and 
work all the time for sonar to be stable enough to be just another 
manjaro edition, and they're not there yet. So to summarize. You want us 
to focus on one profile. That seems to be the mate basic edition, since 
once that works the full edition should also just work, since all it is 
is the basic mate edtion with extra software. I don't think it quite 
works taht way yet, but I'm willing to work with whoever to make that 
happen, even if it means doing the dreaded pull requests lol.

Thanks

Kendell Clark



On 12/16/2016 1:01 PM, Philip Müller wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> maybe you guys didn't got my proposal on how Manjaro-Developers fix
> ISO-Profiles when doing a new profile or recreate it from scratch.
>
> That is exactly why some developers don't get it. We have different ways
> to create stuff. Developers with sight use branches and pull requests
> and review the code before it gets merged line by line and discuss them
> first a lot. This results in better quality. Only if at least two other
> developers than the author approve it, we merge it normally.
>
> Then there are the core developers originally working on the tools and
> such. In the development phase you can just commit all your changes and
> fix them on the go as you wish. Then, when it is considered stable we
> create a new branch and go on with bugfixes using the pull request
> approach when needed. However at least another core developer checks the
> codes afterwards.
>
> That out in the open we agreed to help you guys out. We saw a lot of
> caveats with your code, so Stefano stripped it down and removed all the
> nonsense. Then he started to fix the basics and asked you just to review
> it and report back your findings. We never asked you to change any code.
> That will be done by Manjaro developers first until we have a solid base.
>
> We use always the basic profiles first for development. The full images
> are only the same with additionally added applications. The basic images
> always include the minimalistic desktop with basic features and not
> extra applications and eye candy.
>
> So we had the issue with 'Thus' not working, which was a major issue for
> you guys. Then we had some issue with key-binding and orca not starting.
> Good. At least in the live session we have fixed that.
>
> Next step would be to install it on real hardware and review the missing
> points and issues given with that fact. Then we pick one or two issues
> and prioritise them. We will work then together on these to get them
> solved. Only when all the showstopper bugs are gone we decide on which
> applications may be useful or we still have missed.
>
> So please, review the given profiles as they are without code changes on
> your own and point out what should be fixed first. We dedicate some time
> for you guys, so we also don't want to waste it.
>
> If we don't get to an agreement on it soon we are sorry and have to move
> on without Sonar using Manjaro as base.
>
> I hope this approach is to everybody clear now. If we make it before
> Christmas we can't tell, as Sonar doesn't have yet any high priority
> from Manjaro Development point of view. That is why Stefano, a community
> maintainer invests some time on it and I support him if I find some free
> time. He is lead and what he tells should be accepted.
>
> Some issues are so complex, that they might need somebody who works with
> the new tools more often than you guys did in the past couple of month.
>
> Sometimes the issues are logical and easy to solve. Before changing
> something, ask for advice. Maybe there exists already an solution.
>
> greez, Grumpy Phil
>
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